Looks great, can’t wait to play this game (No beta for me because I want to play the finish product, and I’m happy to wait).

I check every Tuesday (I live in Australia) for the dev blog updates.

I like the logic behind the removal of the health pots, and it will definitely mean you have to perfect boss battles… Awesome!

I think potions of any sort exist more for the “lore” of magical potions than the “core gameplay”. I’m not going to say I’m against removing them but based on what the page said, I don’t think you properly convey the reason why potions and alchemy exist in fantasy RPG worlds

Honestly I’d be more happy with an alchemy update than this announcement of removing HP Pots Justttt saying…

I’m a little disappointed there is no punishment for dying outside of boss fights. I feel like there should be SOME punishment for dying even if it is minor, otherwise there would be no use for health.

Everything else looks great as always.

I’m a big fan of health potions removal.
It makes plenty of sense in terms of gameplay.
Since we have health orbs, a healing skill isn’t necessary either.

I’m also all for the lack of death penalty, since it introduces all sorts of ridiculous tricks that never quite manage to make death feel like a major threat while often making it just a huge pain in the ass.

However I do enjoy a hardcore mode (permadeath) for two reasons :
– To make the first playthrough (–> story) feel more epic
– To make end game PvP (in the arena for SoG) potentially more interesting and replayable in the long term (both with and without permadeath in the Arena for “hardcore” characters).
Have you guys given it some thought ?

I think that enjoying the story in the first playthrough is important if you want to keep us grinding further or introduce some sort of new game+ or other end game content beyond the story.
And it seems that PvP is really the only thing that keeps some engaged people playing after completing 100% of the game (with everything maxed out etc.).
Finally I’m curious to see how hardcore would play if we add it to the multiplayer ghost+resurrect mechanics : it could give a nice incentive to co-op and add a good deal of tension in multiplayer sessions (*If you don’t come back alive, I’ll kill you!*).
So hardcore is worth considering for those reasons I think.

I do intend to play this game for a very long time, in case you’re wondering why I care so much. :)

Wish you guys good fun at the GGC and even greater fun at working on this exciting game.

Regards,

Yangna

@Kadoba : I think that the punishment here is that you are not allowed to progress further until your character is ready to do so.

Other mechanics such as gold or XP cost really just are an additional punishment to the grinding before retrying to go through that section of the game.

Some might argue it doesn’t make it any more fun, or any more efficient in making you fear death.
I’m one of those.
Permadeath by being extreme is different though, mostly because it adds real challenge and attachment to the character (see above comment).

Cheers.

I really like what you done so far guys! However, I highly recommend that you add a Buss-level to the game. A buss level does not only provide for a nice change of scenery but also gives the opertunity to introduce new enemies, such as the Rock Boss, or why not the sledge-hammer-fucking crush-fucker himself? Think of the possibilities! They are endless.

If you do this, IF, and that is IF you are smart enough game-designers who takes advice from thouse who are better, and has alreaddy won grand prizes in world-famous tournaments. Such as the weekend-championship of RPG @ 245:an mot Orsa. IF you are, and have any kind of sence, you will change the story of this game to be about a boy. A boy who desires nothing else but to fight for the right to ride a buss. A priest, who spreades the goodwill of the crush-fuckers to all of mankind. And last, but not least, the one-eyed snake; The wholy bound/penetration-device between every father and son.

Do this, and you will be famous. Or at least have a bit of fun. And srsly which is better?

Peace

Moin

Well, removing the potions is one step I actually do not like. Put a cooldown on them if necessary, but don’t remove them. Short time cooldowns (5-30 seconds) for powerful abilitys are a good way for balancing anyway. Healing should be a part of the game (potions, other consumables, abilitys/spells…) and be limited by other mechanics like cooldowns or cast time/mana.

I’m gonna buy the game anyway, but this is the first change that I can’t find awesome :).

Grüße,
regards,
the Toast

Oh what? You respawn on the spot? That is just not cool… I don’t have to worry about gameplay just mindless clicking and killing ( that’s how it sound to me ).

I vote to make the punishment after dying. Droping random loot so you have to get it back, or cash or decreasing your health and mana for 3 min ( that means you will have to watch yourself even more ) Anything really. In dark souls you wanted to succeed because the monsters respawn and are a pain in the ass….

To clarify the respawning, you respawn where you entered on the same map, with everything reset the way it was when you entered. In other words, you can’t zerg your way through a tough part, because every time you die whatever killed you will be back to full health as well. Kind of like Dark Souls but with more frequent bonfires.

Looking at how people play, the same person generally dies to the same thing several times. In my opinion, the interesting part is where he/she overcomes the challenge, not wasting time plowing through the easy stuff before it. This allows us to have difficult portions of the game despite not being a super hardcore only game like Dark Souls!

Adding a hardcore mode (permadeath) is something we consider doing though, since it’s pretty simple to do, and it would give players looking for heart attacks what they want :P

Back to the topic of health pots, if we come up with a solution how to make them more interesting, we’ll give them another shot. For now, it just feels like they’re there because they are expected to be there, and that’s not a good enough reason! For those worried about “no alchemy”, there are buff potions in the game. You can only have one such effect active at the same time, and their effects are more specific in their intended use and not universally awesome such as a healing potion!

Cooldown on the potions is certainly a way to make them less appealing, but they are still almost as powerful, only now we have introduced semi-forced kiting into the game. That is, running away from harm while waiting for the cooldown to reset! For a ranged mage who already kites, the health potion cooldown kite won’t really affect his style that much (hence not adding something for him), and for a player using a more hectic/exciting combat build, having to go from bashing enemies up close to running away for X cooldown cycles might be a bit tedious as well.

Finally, I’d like to add that we get that a portion of ARPG players like health potions for what they are and not “just because”. I’m not at all saying it’s wrong to like that mechanic (it’s certainly not). But healing mechanics are extremely obtrusive in that they are very powerful by nature, and as such can’t be ignored as an element. Thus, whatever mechanics that come with the potions, be it spamming a button or cooldown kiting, is forced upon all players hoping to do reasonably well.

Thanks for all the input everyone (and if you haven’t posted yet, don’t let this post stop you)! :D

So many updates! But I do not understand the new health system. What is there instead of health points?
I haven’t much time right now so my comment isn’t pretty long but good luck at the GGC anyway!

Sogomn

I’m really supportive of what you intend to do with removing healing pots, in facts I’ve been expecting for long an ARPG to adopt this kind of reasoning. It is more realistic (not that you expect that kind of game to be so) and forces player to be more thoughtful about their playstyle.

However, if you intend not to implement healing pots, be careful not to have any healing mechanics at all, be it by a spell or a passive health regeneration, as you will have entirely the same effect than pots in the end. Some defensive options like shielding, damage absorption or resistance could be interesting yet, for players who intend to have a tanky playstyle.

Syloss, there will still be health-orbs dropped by killed enemies.

There also is a very cool shield-system implemented in the game. You should check it out, I think they have a clip that explains the system somewhere. It’s just awesome. So tanky players, with shieldskills, will be able to just charge and crush enemies!

Thank you for jumping in the conversation with more details Theodore!

I’m 100% in sync with what you added there.
Sounds like fun and gameplay first, and I love it.
It will be interesting to see in the next beta tests feedback!

Also, very much looking forward to hardcore heart attacks!

This just keeps getting better.

Cheers,

Yangna

Moin

“Adding a hardcore mode (permadeath) is something we consider doing though, since it’s pretty simple to do, and it would give players looking for heart attacks what they want :P”

– I don’t know how difficult it would be to implement this, but how about 3 “difficultys”: In NORMAL you would have normal opponents and no malus after death. in HARD mode you would have tougher opponents and would lose some random stuff out of your inventory when you die. HARDCORE could be either a permadeath or something not as final, but still very hurting, like halfing your level and losing all items you carry with you.

For the healing potion kiting: For me it’s part of the fun. I remember that awesome D2 fights where I kept a horde of enemies behind me and just waited for the potion to heal me up before jumping back into battle. I might be able to understand you decision better if I’d get the chance to test the game though… say… in a beta or something like that ;D.

Grüße,
regards,
the Toast

I don’t mind the health potions being removed from this type of game. I think healing skills or spells will provide that option for those that want the healer playstyle though, so I’m hoping those do stay in. However, if it wouldn’t make things too unbalanced, and if it isn’t already implemented, maybe perfect guards and successful combos on enemies that drop health orbs will drop more effective health orbs? Nothing changes for those that play normally but those who want to play by using the more skillful maneuvers are rewarded slightly more in health. It would add just one more reason to take advantage of the perfect guard and stuff. Dunno, thoughts?

+1 to Kit’s suggestion for the perfect guard.

For instance increasing the drop rate of health orbs for kills directly following a perfect guard could create some interesting gameplay:

When you’re low on health you’re encouraged to block more efficiently and take some risks, versus staying behind your shield until it breaks.

The only downside I see to that idea is that it might be hard to make it an obvious / intuitive / self-explanatory gameplay mechanic. Maybe by making the drop rate 100% and with a unique cool FX?

Regards,

Yangna

This doesn’t really relate to this topic but I’m glad I found this game on the Steam Greenlight. This game is now one of the few games I’m really looking forward to! Thank you!

On the topic of Potions, I don’t see a problem with them gone. It’s not a big deal for me but since it seems that many people want them, may be there is a way to nerf them. For example, may be instead of instant health, make it so it regenerates your health slowly for a short time. I’m not sure how everything works right now, yet, so this is just an idea.

I’m buying this as soon as it comes out!

Where is todays weekly recap? :(

Sorta late to this one I guess, but I really don’t like the removal of health potions. They add an extra form of resource management to games that are supposed to feel expansive and real; you may see it as an annoyance to have to return to town to stock up, but in fact it causes the player to attach meaning to the town as a place to heal, resupply, and reach safety, while the world outside is dangerous wilderness. Removing as many “annoyances” as possible is actually detrimental to immersing the player in the world.

Diablo 3 is a really good example. Almost every major gameplay change over Diablo 2 was intended to reduce tedium for the player and shed mechanics like enemy kiting, potion spamming to get through tough fights, and so on, and the result is a game that feels shallow, fake, and unsatisfying. As another commenter mentioned, Diablo 2 had thrilling moments where running for your life and chugging a potion was the only thing that saved you; relying on arcade-style orb refills like in D3 removes those moments and makes the game move a step in the direction of a mindless clickfest rather than strategic combat.

Naturally, if you’re going to allow potions to increase player longevity in the wild, the death system needs to be more meaningful than restarting from the beginning of the screen you’re on. If you don’t want to introduce any real player penalty (losing gold, etc.), then the player should at least restart at the last town or save point they visited, as they would in Secret of Mana, Link to the Past, and other classic games. Players will complain about dying because it’s a negative experience, but that’s because it’s *supposed* to be, and it makes combat more dangerous and exciting when there is a more real risk to the player if they fail.

Please don’t “overdesign” the game into oblivion, like what happened with D3. There’s an obvious love of classic ARPGs going into this game, and I think a lot of the modern additions, like a Just Defend system for the shield and spell/skill cancelable attacks, are really awesome. But I don’t want to see the inclusion of less desirable modern trends in gaming that kill the satisfaction of getting through a challenging, immersive game for the sake of not wanting the player to feel inconvenienced by his/her failures.

DRINK BLEACH NO ONE WILL MISS YOU I WANT TO COME KILL YOU AND DRINK YOUR BLOOD IN FRONT OF YOUR LOVE ONES